ac compressor direct start without relay

During a hot summer, an air conditioning system can start up more than 4000 times. They are all wired about the same. Walter. It seems the chunks are small to keep up in such case. John W. I changed the 2 fuses out, checked the power to the fuse box (got power to the AC), and cleaned off the fins (LOTS of cottonwood seeds!). It overloads the compressor. I have a Maytag side by side freezer/fridge. starter can be expected to last the entire useful life of the refrigerator. 2) I hope that someone more knowledgeable, such as yourself - possibly, would contribute with knowledge I failed to locate or include, it being - you know - a collaborative web thing and all. I have checked the compressor for continuity between connectors, there were no problem. Sometimes you fix it before you learn everything - thats a good thing. is always running warm and there is always a bit of current running through the start capacitor, even when the P.T.C. My frig quit after a power brownout. From last 3 days refregerator is not cooling..both sections freezer and refregerator...!! I plugged it back in and voila it all started up. So you pull the relay cover off the compressor, remove the relay/overload and this is what you see. Thanks for any help you offer. Last weekend I came home to a completely thawed out freezer. fixitnow.com/wp/2005/12/01/refrigerator-warming-up-and-makes-an-occasional-clicking-noise/ A cold P.T.C. First plz bother to understand all then write about it. fixitnow.com/wp/2004/09/07/online-refrigerator-repair-manual/, Diagnosing problems by frost patterns on the evaporator coils: If I were replacing that relay I'd maybe go ahead and replace the capacitor as well. I disconnected all the wiring from the compressor and attached a homemade switch-box that allowed me to do the start routine manually. My experience does not include separate cooling coils for the refrigerator and freezer compartments, so if that's what your unit has, I'm pretty well at my limit.       #6.1.1.2: Bob on 2010-02-17 22:27 Using the 2 biggest chunks of the disc, the compressor started running properly. I'd be willing to bet it's a rather simple fix; it's usually NOT the solid state devices that burn up, but rather an inexpensive resistor that decides it's tired and gives up the ghost. To state my problem in short all the separate parts of the fridge check out okay independently but when put together it only works once when the circuit is energised with power! Holler if you have a link for a cheap generic thermostat! You got this fridge as a cheap fixer-upper, I'm assuming, so instead of money you must be willing to invest some time. I never know who to trust in cyber world. In the words of many repairmen, an AC compressor is the heart of an AC system. Please reply if anybody has an answer to my question. It holds the parts in place and keeps the live components insulated from you and the critters that crawl behind appliances. As you surmised, after a couple of seconds, the resistor heats up and its resistance goes way up, effectively disconnecting the starting capacitor from the circuit. So it is not like Energy-Star compliant... but it works Thanx again, Mo. Remember, the initial inertia of getting the compressor moving against the "load" (compressed coolant) is much greater than what's necessary to keep it running once it's up to speed. PTC Relay Compressor - Unit Ground Alt. One week to get the part, but the promised one year return policy "no questions asked" is unbeatable. The starter relay transmits power from the capacitors to the compressor. If I don't have them fix it, it's $65. you can return it even if you install it, but it will cost more than the other place. There are forums specifically on appliance repair; you'd do better there for advice. In the mean time this saved the fridge full of food. Am I looking at a bad compressor? While touching one wire to one terminal and the other wire to the other terminal of the run cap, turn on the compressor. Hello my friend. Got the fridge running and now I can try to get the part and not a new fridge.   #1.4: Jack on 2011-12-20 00:49 On the brown side the lead simply ties to another going upstairs. They have time delay relays here in central america for that. Good writeup, considering ample warnings in the writeup. Heavy rubber gloves would not be an unwise precaution. Make sure you have good contacts. That is awesome! But the time is only set for 3 minutes .... enough time for the system to depressurize and allow the compressor to start without the extra head pressure. ), That said, maybe the fried electronics aren't much more expensive to replace than buying the aforementioned parts. For a regular fridge or freezer it's probably $5-10. Just this home made compressor starter device attached directly to the winding terminals. One repair dealer told me not to invest in my 11 yr old fridge. I don't remember how to read the resistance from the stripes but it is odd to find two spades soldered together with a resistor. General Refrigerator and Diagnostic Repair Guide: Some who have given advice for appliances across the pond. All you need is a Philips screwdriver and the ability to get up on the RV’s roof. I plugged in the fridge, then pulled apart the wire leads. Based on the comments, you are the 3rd person to use the chunks of the PTC to make do while you wait for the part.   #1.3: Gary on 2009-09-07 18:16 One other thing ....; I decided to put some wire leads across the capacitor. which includes the Electrolux warning on the fires that they can cause if used long term: and how to slove it ? My question being, is there a down side to having the run and start wires connected during operation or will this simply give me added torque at the expense of efficiency? Give power to just one coil at a time, directly, not thru the PTC (to rule that out)? If you are talking about the start relay, the guy from the appliance place is probably right: it would work. Review the troubleshooting steps above, there are a few and you only listed your findings on a couple. All the others would work fine. Compressor Direct Start Without Relay. #52: Alberto on 2014-08-18 21:42 I noticed there is a bank of valves near the compressor that are attached to a wiring cable that goes back up to the pcb. I put a thermometer in the freezer and it cooled it down right away. �F�� �H3�j��Z�m�5,*]�r�.��f�궉H��H��4��� �_����GAc+�ڤ2�hA:��nmg{Ӱ(�~�İ⳦;Ca�>�Wf7��@ZbC����D��R?�x��h�R,��l��,������������~�ό�� ��01�]s�MZ���Z��n ��t���Z��9��of"\�ǰV�QF>����V�Ll���4r�̸ı�0��>�Hx�y`w��+�/DA�Ԝ�w��*4&�KT�#%����)�-��`�'g퇖�,��MF�:[nwp��sS����5z��~����;�G�n|NcQ��1�n�rc=�+��h��&���ȟ1ߤ��P�U���e-+��AƉ\J�'%aި��{�*�����l�-��=����aMl����. That's not relevant here, as you might imagine, because the available voltages that are applied to this device for our purposes are essentially two... 0 v and 120 V. (FYI, there are such things as NTC devices which DEcrease in resistance as the applied voltage INcreases; we have no need to discuss them here, however.). I tried a couple of these various trouble shooting websites, most of which were so utterly basic they they weren't helpful at all "Is the trouble the overload capacitor? The bitron valve I found has a resistor soldered in across the two spades of the incoming wires. Problem: Air conditioner or heat pump compressor will not start.I hear an “UGGG” sound for 5 to 10 seconds when the compressor tries to start then the compressor shuts off. It also describes how to check the compressor. It seems you have a quite successful repair thread going here that has helped many people, including me. Have not ordered the part yet incase it's actually the compressor that said adios. I could not find a replacement part on espares.com for the fridge in question, however I did find one that looked EXACTLY the same, and thus purchased it. On my Kenmore removing the old part took less time than moving the refridgerator. #43: Mo on 2013-06-11 18:04 Thanks, worked great and was able to diagnose that it was the relay. I have taken the readings on the 3 terminals on my compressor (Magic Chef mini fridge) and come up the following readings (ohms): 8.5-11.5-18.0. (Is this getting out of hand yet? #36: Parsik on 2012-08-22 12:04 Thanks. www.scribd.com/doc/21952748/Service-Flash-RF0613-Improper-Technician-Use-of-Hard-Start-Kits. There is a humming sound, clicks, cuts out on overload and then over and over again in circles. It will help me in the field when I want to isolate the compressor to see how its running independent of the rest of the entire refrigerator. Your info helped me to verify that my PTC and compressor seemed OK, and gave me the confidence to test them directly. But the relay is on the pcb. I'll go for the $40 fix first. He did it as a TEMPORARY fix for one of two reasons. I checked the capacitor first thing, and it seemed ok, but it's hard to tell with just a digital ohm-meter. The fridge was still warm after two hours. I have a Maytag Dual cool and it stopped cooling and had the same symptoms of 10 or so seconds of buzzing, then stop. fixitnow.com/wp/2011/02/25/how-to-troubleshoot-warm-refrigerator-problems-by-reading-the-evaporator-frost-pattern/, Warm Refrigerator Trouble Flowchart: Hooray! #42: Jay J on 2013-05-01 14:57 The PTC device, called various things... startup device... ptc relay... startup relay, and others... is known in the electronics field as a "thermistor", which is simply a contraction of "thermal resistor", meaning a resistor that changes it's properties (resistance) with heat, in this case, the heat generated by current passing through it. Got any ideas? I've checked everything and it all looks good.     #6.1.1: jerome on 2010-02-16 17:09 My wife and I work in a different town 2 hours away from home and stay there all week. The part you need I found here: My fridge had the same symptoms as yours. Hi - I have a Bosch fridge/freezer which behaves like the situation you were facing. I wouldn't have attempted that without having gotten my better understanding from this page.   #58.1: Admin on 2018-01-04 01:09 I advanced the timer and voila once again the refrigerator came back to life. They are for any devise that you don't want to immediately start after a power burp. Unfortunately, the power utility doesn't supply any such service to residential customers, so a capacitor is inserted in series with one of the motor windings to provide the needed phase shift. http://www.pcappliancerepair.com/part-detail.php?sku=4387835&brand=WPL The second hot, which piggy backs from the first hot to a momentary SPST switch acts as your auxiliary power backup or capacitor, but only for a second when you let the momentary switch go it stops sending power to the compressor just like the capacitor does. 4 thoughts on “ Reasons an Air Conditioner Compressor Will Not Start ” James L Cue May 29, 2020. Furthermore, the start capacitor can assist the compressor on the next startup. Firstly, I would like to apologies for my lack of anything-electrical related knowledge. Doubly unfortunately, the wirings of my fridge look nothing like that you have kindly drawn above. I have replaced the relay with a new one and the problem does not go away. Then out this onto the fridge and it worked too !! How can i start refrigerator compressor without relay overload. How is it you are running a 110 Volt Appliance in a 220 Volt country? Is there a way to test each leg of the compressor?   #19.1: Tim M on 2011-09-29 23:24 But it should be a simple matter to make the fan work and see if that fixes the problem. As a way to see that the compressor is still working for start and run coils? Then, locate the cover plate at the bottom rear of the refrigerator and remove it with a screwdriver. My question is, could low coolant have worked the compressor harder and burned out the PTC starter? I took it off the compressor, and tested the compressor using a multimeter, The compressor seems to be working fine, with the readings checking out at 8ohm, 5ohm, 3ohm. #22: Ed on 2011-12-01 04:39 If the guy charged $60 for each billable hour, that means that now he brings in $30 for each hour worked. Be aware that you can KILL yourself quite easily in this process, so unless you know what you're doing around electricity, LEAVE IT ALONE! It looks to cost about 50 cents. Thanks for your help. #14: Jagjit on 2011-05-25 01:11 When the fridge is all connected up with its own start relay and connectors after the fridge has been disconnected for a while it starts only the first time. Now I'm chillin again, waiting for the stores to open. Maybe he just thought you couldn't be safely messing around with this without killing someone as he could certainly get the wiring diagram online.   #11.1: Admin on 2011-03-13 17:58 Try different ON times, starting with only a few minutes at a stretch, to see how much ON-time works for you. I assume that with the original replacement, the compressor should stand with the case of the power blinking off for a second, instead of rattling back and forth without starting. I bought the refrigerator second hand from a family who lived in the States and brought it here when they moved. How complicated can this possibly be? Thank you very much for sharing. However, I have another concern: I recall that A/C Compressors (at least automotive) use oil in the closed loop system for lubrication. Anw way my 30 years old side by side Amana stopped working, I mean no cooling, fan works but the compressor refused to kick up, I tempered with the PTC and overload while the compressor was hot and I burned my hand in the process, so I took the relay out to let the condenser fan do the cooling of the motor, then I plug everything in its place and fridge started working great and happily for me and itself! I can get the wires connected without the "plug", which is just a plastic shroud around a quick disconnect (ordinary "blade and sheath" connection, i don't know what else it's called) for each wire. (OK the puddle on the floor helped me notice). Not to mention a bit of a kluge. Can't believe you went into such elaborate detail, exploring, locating and then explaining a problem (and solution) in an area which you previously had no expertise in. Mine didn't seem to be damaged in any way (aside from a broken rivet). And by the way, just to be clear, I want to go on record as saying I think this is a bad plan. But DO SOME TESTS before you start swapping out parts. And gave up. u5�W�_l>s��6̛�C7 ��@}�C�x~�$��B�hC���o)���-��c�ٍ�Km5��s@]AR�5JN��������#U{��S�D����7d�.`�w^���PY*l��p&���|F��T^�"���Do�$=�� ��J�����ۼ��븸��V���^s%:�B�/C�V W��Ez�2 �9��h���t�[�_��z79���pb��Q�ۮ�F��ykr��P�x�� ��jp����ZU�W ��a@��=v�[�D�F�a[��؍޿��!��R"�冫n�A,@�p-^�o+F�� C�K^�F(̍�,�����{ט\ik��R�#j�nGO��$��H�{2+�2�,N������0Ǯ�����&���.���NV���ݾ'�)[b�tK�,��a���?|9X�6���"v1 I extended them and loosely tied them together.     #1.1.2: Homayoun on 2019-05-11 21:01 #19: Paul F on 2011-09-12 21:50 The PTC and the Overload are tricky to install: If you have a GE TFX22CRBBWW, plug the black wire on the Overload and plug the overload in the upper pin of the compressor (make sure the two "legs" point down). 1 wire is red, 1 is blue, coming from I don't know where. I USED A SEPERATED AC POWER CABLE CONNECT THE BLACK ONE TO THE RUN WINDING AND WHITE ONE TO THE COMMNON WITCH IS AT THE CENTER THEN POWER AC ON AND USED THE SCREW DRIVER TO SHORT BETWEEN THE RUN AND THE START WINIDNG FOR A ABOUT THREE SECOND. This used to be done with mechanical relays, but they have the disadvantage of contacts that pit and burn over time, and eventually the contacts no longer provide starting current to the motor and the compressor motor doesn't start. Today is Friday (problem was detected last night), Monday I get the parts. I didn't post on appliantology.org (didn't know about the site until now). #20: TX on 2011-09-29 17:41 Kinda like your car on a straight and level highway. My ammonia RV fridge died and my mini fridge was dead, so I have been tinkering on my mini fridge - turns out the thermostat contacts were fried. Well, I think I'm at the end of my expertise, Jerome. I have a frigidaire side by side. How could it with only three leads going upstairs? THANKS! #56: domore on 2017-07-01 00:22 My only regret - repairclinic.com is located a mile away from my office. The system relies on power through the relay. Strip the insulation off the ends of the wires. Thank you, Admin.. Great job! That means I'll have to put a transformer in and wire it to the valves. Just found this blog after a search, and thanks to your reverse-engineering information, I was able to get my fridge's compressor running until the new PTC arrives. We came home today to find that really bad smell. Thanks! Compressor start is its most difficult time. The first time you plugged it in, it started doing it's job and compressing the freon into the tubes. AC compressor is an important part in the car’s air conditioning system. All the wires (from the fridge and from the 3-pin plug) connect directly to the Start Relay. The PTC is intact, looks clean and appears from the test to function correctly. I prefer not to have the fridge working with the 2 chunks left from the disc, just in case such power blink occurs. "I didn't bother to fully understand, I suspect it's about efficiency or not overdriving the motor when it's up to full speed.". Do people think that this constant tripping of the PTC when hot is a symptom of a dying compressor. There is a world of difference between the ability to problem solve and the ability to follow directions. The fridge is starting to cool again. I quote "The PTC is a weird thing, it seems to be a temperature-sensitive conductor - when cold" It's normally wired such that the two windings are effectively connected together in parallel when cold. My only speculation is that either that little disk is not providing enough resistance, so the capacitor never charges, or with the 120v, it would resist too quickly and cut the circuit before the compressor could start. Enclosing asterisks marks text as bold (*word*), underscore are made via _word_. The display comes on but flickers and lots of the elements either don't come on or go on and off. Costs about $20USD. #24: Chuck on 2012-01-01 03:09 I also checked resistance between the three pins on the compressor but they read near zero on my old analog voltmeter and that seems reasonable considering they are just windings. Is there FIRE danger if you leave that cover off? #21: Cameron on 2011-11-14 18:52 Installing the hard start capacitor into my RV air conditioner was super easy! Once it has started you cannot restart it for at least 10 minutes. . I dumped out all of the pieces and used the largest two chunks to connect the two sets of contacts. Then in the last week or so, it started to get really loud and more frequent. But since the receptacle on the replacement doesn't fit the plug, I don't know which wire goes to which "blade" terminal on this replacement device. Depending on where you called him from. Is the current from black to overload also being fed momentarily to the start circuit? -Robert M. Pirsig Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance Ch. The compressor is not starting. (My local appliance shop wants $75 for it). Gajanan. Please point me in the right direction as I have exhausted all my own knowledge! My guess would be that the pieces will not last long, but YMMV. I have dozens of the 3-n-1 kits running over 10 years or longer. The other option is that because the unit runs for less than 60 seconds each time to just let both windings run on and replace the motor every 12 months ors so, it was a scrap unit to start with so no financial loss. However, the refrigerator start relay has to be removed from the system in order to have it checked. If you unplug it when it has already been compressing, it will try to start under a full load and trip the overload protector until some of the freon works its way through the system, then it may get going again only to come up to a full load too quickly and trip the protector again. . C S R. Figure 3-2. It is the best site I have found. Then plug the orange wire on the PTC and plug the PTC on the two lower pins (paralell to each other) of the compressor). I started using the 3-n-1 on some cheesy “Chinese” small upright freezers that are impossible to find “factory” parts for. Thanks. Or try taking the old one to an electronics shop and schmoozing the owner to fix it for you on the cheap? There was no noise coming from the fridge, thus a tiny bit of research made me assume that the Starter Relay (PTC - thingy) was shot. This was fascinating precisely because he didn't understand it yet. I have a silly question. Thanks for the effort. Now I have a question - how the heck did you get that plastic cover back on after you used those substitute parts??? http://applianceguru.com/, http://www.davesrepair.com/drsn/Aug06bi.htm In my case, the humming goes for a bit and then it starts starting and stopping in like a 3-5 second interval. Four or five? You can then optimize your fridge using multiple temp sensors! and If the air-conditioning compressor on a late model car does not engage, the system is probably low on refrigerant and the low-pressure switch prevents the compressor from turning on. (Anti-SPAM question), Making a Folding Meditation Kneeling Bench, Changing Manual Transmission Fluid in a Scion tC, The temperature thermostat up inside the unit turns on power, which goes back down through the molex connector to the orange/blue wires. You're certainly free to do what you like, of course... After all, I do recognize that we all need a new project now and then to keep the old blood pumping, but this one sounds to me like the pain level is far to high and the gain is far too questionable. Subsequent times are failures!! Your system is not closed, and you most likely do not inject oil into your paint spray - so if I'm right, how do you lubricate the compressor? I had thought of letting the intake air pull over the PTC to keep it's temp down and hopefully reduce the time between starts what do you think? After the repairman came out and wanted $190 to fix our fridge I did some investigating....I got a new Start Relay Switch, hooked it up wrong and blew a fuse. And I personally would never intentionally create a short in an electrical circut, but you had the balls to and it gave me some insight. One is a 1/3 hp and one is a 1/6 hp/ Any way I can tell which one I need before I order.....Magic Chef refrig. Or if you are in a pinch and dont want all your food to spoil until you get a new relay and overload, you can build one of these. The fan has 2 black wires. I checked the thermometer and it had gone up about 10 degrees. . Start Winding Main Winding. Katie believes you can never have too much glassware or glitter! Figures my luck, just as I thought I had it fixed the timer for the autodefrost came on. #12: pick on 2011-03-17 05:56   #25.1: Tim M on 2012-01-20 15:24 The knock on him "Why do guys like you write about things that they know nothing abou" as AZZY did, I couldn't agree with less. The PTC stands for Positive Temperature Coefficient, meaning that the resistance of the device INcreases as the applied voltage across it's terminals INcreases. 1) Call an ambulance (you should do that first in case you're unconscious later) Thanks to this site and others I successfully replace the start relay to fix my compressor not starting issue. Some of them feature a thermal fuse to protect against overload, but these fuses are generally not replaceable and the motor is scrap if the fuse ever opens due to overheating. So, I pulled the PTC and the Overload (2 different pieces that fit together to plug in the 3 prong receptacle on the compressor) and the PTC rattled like a Brazilian maraca.. Subscribe to this entry. I started searching again, and found this page. I do want to respectfully disagree with the recommendation not to use a 3-n-1 kit. Your article helped me greatly in solving my problem. EVERYTHING you would need to know to diagnose this is in my previous post. This would repeat every 2-3 minutes. In simple terms, an AC compressor is a pump which creates the heat by putting the air conditioning refrigerant under extremely high pressure. The use of a Crankcase Pressure Regulator (CPR) or pressure limited TXV (MOP) may be required. Thanks for the follow up! I just don't think $220 for 20 minutes is very cool (pun intended). I really don't wish to spend the equivalent of $70 on a start kit, to find out it is actually the compressor. #58: Mark R on 2018-01-03 22:39 Running the compressor from a timer -- rather than allowing it to be done by way of a new control board -- is a hit-or-miss proposition that, though it CAN work, will provide you a less-than-optimal device that will always be a thorn in your side. Replace it" or others which offered up plenty of options to try and even percentages of times the particular part fixed the problem. Then take an additional 15% off for self-employment taxes. emergencies. When it started (Saturday morning, I think), there was a click, 10 seconds of buzzing, then silence. I actually swapped back in the old PTC and it started working again! I'll keep that in mind if I ever face this issue. My relay actually has the capacitor plugged directly into it, but after comparing it with your diagram, I found all the same parts and connections. However, you can just change the relay if you have been using the air conditioner for a long time.

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